Christian Music Maker

Ep. 17 — 4 Myths I Had to Unlearn to Make a Living in Music

For nearly 30 years, I've been getting paid to make music, and for the last 20 years, it's been my full-time work.
In this solo episode, I share four myths I had to unlearn along the way—from creativity and productivity, to faith, identity, platform-building, and staying focused on mission when the methods keep changing.
If you're an artist, songwriter, producer, worship leader, or creative trying to build something meaningful, these lessons were learned the hard way.
In this episode:
Why creativity and productivity aren't opposites
The danger of waiting until you have the whole plan
Why achievement can't give you identity
How to build a platform that serves others
Why your mission matters more than your methods
Whether you're just getting started or you've been at it for years, I hope these lessons encourage you to keep showing up, keep growing, and keep creating.

Ep. 16 — Worship Doesn’t Have to Sound the Same (with Steele Croswhite & Caleb Yetton)

In this episode of Christian Music Maker, Sam sits down with Steele Croswhite and Caleb Yetton from The Rock Music in Utah for a conversation about worship culture, authenticity, theology, creativity, and why so many churches unintentionally end up sounding exactly the same.
Steele shares his journey from rock-and-roll frontman to pastor and worship leader after addiction, loss, and a radical encounter with Jesus changed the trajectory of his life. Caleb shares how grace, discipleship, and authentic community reshaped his understanding of ministry and creativity.
Together, they unpack:
How churches can discover their own unique “sound”
Why authenticity matters more than trends
The tension between creativity and imitation in worship culture
Theology, Scripture, and discipleship in worship ministry
Why local church involvement matters for musicians
Building team culture instead of personality-driven ministry
What it looks like to create music that actually reflects your city and people
This is a conversation for worship leaders, artists, pastors, songwriters, producers, and anyone wrestling with how to build something meaningful without simply copying what already exists.
Follow / listen to The Rock Music:therockmusic.org
Instagram: instagram.com/therockmusic
TikTok: tiktok.com/@therockmusic
Facebook: facebook.com/therockmusic
 
Christian Music maker:https://www.christianmusicmaker.com
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Ep. 15 — How to Book Your Own Shows Before the Big Breakthrough with Connor Flanagan

Christian hip hop artist Connor Flanagan joins Sam Hart for a practical and honest conversation about what it really looks like to build an artist career before the “big breakthrough.”
Connor is a full-time indie artist, husband, dad of five, songwriter, performer, and self-described artistpreneur who has learned how to book his own shows, route tours, build a live experience, sell merch, and keep going without waiting for a label, manager, or booking agent to rescue him.
In this episode, Connor shares how he went from playing small shows with CDs and moving lights to building a nimble live setup that fits in a minivan. He also opens up about fear, faith, comparison, anxiety, and what it takes to stay faithful in the middle season of the artist journey.
If you’re a Christian artist, songwriter, producer, worship leader, or creative trying to figure out how to move forward without a full team behind you, this conversation is full of gold.
Connect with Connor:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/connorflanaganmusic
Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/connor-flanagan/450791190
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/5AhC3FXTAcCNMKXvVhGDZo?si=3erpY25US2yF0JaGq711yA
Website: https://www.connorflanaganmusic.com
Connect with Christian Music Maker:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@christianmusicmakerpodcast
Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com

Ep. 14 – You Never Know Who's Listening (The Song That's Discipling Perez Hilton)

What happens when a former skeptic and mocker of Christianity has a radical encounter with God in a hospital bed — and Christian music becomes part of his redemption story?
In this solo episode (the first since Episode 0!), Sam reflects on a viral post from celebrity influencer Perez Hilton, who recently shared how a song by Rend Collective and Jervis Campbell moved him to tears on the way to school drop-off. It's a surprising, encouraging, and timely reminder of something every Christian music maker needs to hear: you never know who is going to hear your song and how God is going to use it.
Sam also gets personal — sharing his own story of how Christian music met him in his own prodigal season, his convictions about Scripture and sexuality, and why staying "salty" matters more than chasing spins, streams, or awards.
If you're tired, discouraged, or wondering if any of this is worth it — this episode is for you.
In this episode:
The Perez Hilton story and why it matters for Christian music makers
Watch the clip Sam references: [Perez Hilton's Post — https://youtu.be/pmhAdGubNXI?si=yONpOv1byx8en6kz ]
Rend Collective & Jervis Campbell — listen to Do It All Alone: SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/track/4r52cNLmKqWVMMyaHYXikF?si=29cd4d2261744b8f  |  APPLE MUSIC: https://music.apple.com/us/album/do-it-all-alone/1887355945?i=1887356036
Sam's personal story and convictions
Matthew 5:13-16 — Stay salty, stay light
A word of encouragement for the weary creative
Join the conversation: 📲 Follow & DM us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker
Supported by Worship Leader Media: https://worshipleader.com
Enjoying the podcast? Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts — just scroll down on the show page, select your star rating, and tap "Write a Review." It takes 60 seconds and helps more Christian music makers find the show.
~1,000 downloads and counting — thank you to listeners across the US, Canada, Algeria, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Pakistan, Philippines, New Zealand, Mexico, Chile, Italy, and beyond!

Ep. 13 – Jamie Jamgochian: God Told Me "You're Gonna Sing Again"

What do you do when the calling you were certain about… goes quiet?
In this episode, Jamie Jamgochian shares the real story behind a career that looked like it was over—Lyme disease, years of silence, and the wrestle of wondering if God was finished.
We talk about surrender, identity, waiting seasons, and what it actually means to trust God when nothing is moving. If you’re an artist, songwriter, or producer navigating a slow season—or questioning your next step—this one will hit close to home.
 
00:00 — Intro02:00 — From jazz pianist to Jesus encounter05:00 — How faith reshaped her music and calling09:00 — Early days with Centricity Music + “Hear My Worship”13:30 — Worship vs CCM: does the distinction even matter?21:30 — When everything stopped: illness, silence, and doubt24:30 — “I thought it was over…” — hearing God in the lowest moment27:00 — Identity: who you are when the music stops32:00 — Advice for single artists in ministry38:30 — The importance of mentorship and being teachable43:00 — Stop waiting for industry permission46:30 — New music, book, and creative direction49:00 — How to wait well when nothing is happening
🔑 What You’ll Take Away
Why your identity can’t be tied to your career
How to navigate seasons where nothing is moving
What surrender actually looks like in real life (not just songs)
Why mentorship and community matter more than you think
The difference between calling, timing, and control
📌 Connect with Jamie
Music, book, and more from https://www.jaimejam.com
https://www.christianmusicmaker.com

Ep. 12 – Todd Smith (Selah) on People-Pleasing, Calling, and the Tour That Almost Made Him Quit

Todd Smith (Selah) shares the story behind his life, faith, and career—from growing up in the Congo to almost quitting music just two weeks into his first tour.
We talk about people-pleasing, burnout, calling vs career, and what it really means to walk with God instead of performing for Him.
If you’re an artist trying to make it—and stay grounded—this one’s for you.
 
🔗 LINKS💻 Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com
📸 Instagram:   / christian.music.maker  
 
CONNECT WITH TODD:
Facebook:   / toddsmithonline  
Instagram:   / officialtoddsmith  
Selah's Instagram:   / selahonline  
Selah's Website: https://www.selahonline.com

Ep. 11 – Yancy walked away from a record deal—and it turned out sweeter than the dream

Yancy turned down a London record deal at 16, won a GMA competition right before a label said no, and accidentally became one of Christian music's most beloved artists — all without ever signing to a major label. In this conversation, she traces the thread of obedience that runs through every unexpected turn, and what it felt like to finally win a Dove Award on her own terms. For anyone who makes music and wonders if God is actually paying attention...this episode is gold.

Ep. 10 – You Are Not Your Music: A Conversation on Identity, Worth, and Belonging (with Bill Yuhasz)

What if your identity has slowly become tied to your success?
For many Christian artists, songwriters, and producers — music becomes more than just a calling. It becomes a place to find belonging, approval, and worth. But what happens when success doesn’t come… or when it does and still doesn’t satisfy?
In this conversation, Sam Hart sits down with Bill Yuhasz from Known Legacy to talk about identity, healing, and learning to create from who you already are — not for what you hope to become.
They explore how men especially can struggle with performance-based identity, why our worth often becomes tied to our work, and how God invites us into a deeper place of belonging that isn’t dependent on platform, success, or recognition.
This episode is about doing music from identity — not for it.
In this episode:
Why many artists unknowingly perform for belonging
The difference between identity and calling
How success can become a substitute for love and acceptance
Healing the wounds that drive performance-based identity
Learning to create from who you already are in Christ
Why men often struggle to name emotions and vulnerability
Finding worth beyond platform, recognition, or achievement
Creating from identity instead of chasing validation
Connect with Bill Yuhasz / Known Legacy
Website: https://knownlegacy.orgBook: https://knownlegacy.org/more-than-youKnown Legacy Podcast: https://knownlegacy.org/podcasts
Christian Music Maker
Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker

Ep. 9 – How to Stay Unjaded After 25 Years in Christian Music (with Stacey Willbur)

Stacey Willbur is a Nashville publishing veteran who has spent over 25 years championing artists and songwriters across both Christian and country music — with credits spanning Chris Tomlin, Kari Jobe, Mandisa, Chris Stapleton, John Paul White of the Civil Wars, and many more. Now serving as Head of Publishing at TIM Publishing alongside Chris Tomlin and Jason Ingram, she's still as passionate about a great song as the day she arrived in Nashville with no money and no connections.
In this conversation, Stacey opens up about what it really takes to stay unjaded in a creative industry — and why the secret has less to do with success and more to do with keeping your heart in the right place.
 
Follow Stacey Willbur on IG: https://www.instagram.com/staceywillbur
💿 Follow Christian Music Maker on IG: https://www.instagram.com/timpublishing
🎙️ Follow Christian Music Maker on IG: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker
🎙️ Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClpxaPIm0dcJ01Ma5VsHCqw

Ep. 8 – Thomas Toner: Jelly Roll's Producer on Money, AI, and His Return to Christian Music

Thomas Toner is a Nashville-based producer and songwriter best known for his decade-long collaboration with Jelly Roll. In this conversation, Thomas gets honest about the business side of producing, how AI is reshaping his workflow, and why he walked away from a thriving career to return to Christian music.
In This Episode
The artist-producer relationship: chemistry, trust, and knowing your role
What producers are actually worth — and how to negotiate for it
Master splits, recoupment, and catalog organization
Where AI fits (and where it doesn't) in modern music production
Faith, fulfillment, and the decision to start over
His new producer presets via STL Tones Control Hub
Timestamps
[00:00] Intro
[01:43] Early influences: Travis Barker, Blink-182, and stealing his sisters' CDs
[07:00] First job in Christian music at 19
[09:50] Meeting Jelly Roll
[12:10] Can you make Christian music without believing it?
[22:38] What a decade with Jelly Roll taught him about the artist-producer relationship
[31:00] The "Walmart Rick Rubin" production philosophy
[35:35] What separates good producers from great ones
[38:05] What artists most misunderstand about producers
[43:23] Master splits, recoupment, and why the old model is broken
[55:18] Catalog admin and the revenue streams most producers are missing
[59:44] AI: tool, threat, or noise?
[01:23:00] What AI can never replicate in production
[01:35:42] What integrity looks like in this industry
[01:39:31] The hardest lessons from 15 years in the business
[01:44:56] Why he returned to Christian music
[01:51:28] His new STL Tones / Control Hub plugin presets
[01:59:37] "If your kids described your career one day, what would you hope they say?"
Resources
🎛️ Thomas Toner's Producer Presets — STL Tones Control Hub 👉 https://www.stltones.com/products/controlhub-plugin
📱 Follow Thomas Toner on IG: https://www.instagram.com/stonebabysounds 
🎙️ Follow Christian Music Maker on IG: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker
🎙️ Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClpxaPIm0dcJ01Ma5VsHCqw
Christian Music Maker is a podcast about the people, process, and purpose behind music made for something bigger. Subscribe wherever you listen.